YBP has interviewed a few engineers who have decided against pursuing a higher ed STEM degree. You could start by asking them why.
ybpguide
· 1 year ago
That is an interesting point, something I'd like to speak to.
I have an Electrical Engineering degree and interned at Procter and Gamble. I loved (absolutely loved) what I was doing my last summer and they required that I get a Masters degree to continue.
I balked at it, not lightly, for three reasons: 1.) I always had this desire to own my own business. This may be something ingrained in us from our culture and the implicit encouragement to 'be your own person' and 'excel more than others think is possible'. I felt that staying in school for another year would hamper this. 2.) I had an offer on the table from another company and simply was tired of school. Engineering was hard and I wanted a break. 3.) I wasn't sure if having a graduate degree would allow me to be flexible within the market for the future. I thought if I had this stack of degrees on my resumé and eventually decide to NOT be in engineering, I'd be pigeonholed.
Jubilance
· 1 year ago
Great topic. I am a chemist, and 2 years ago I was a PhD student in Chemistry at a large university. I ultimately decided that a PhD was not in line with my career goals, so I left with my MS.
I've spent a lot of time looking at the STEM pipeline, since I was in it for so many years. I think a large part of the issue is giving kids a realistic view of what STEM fields are. A lot of times in our outreach programs and various orgs we want to make STEM fields seem fun and cool so that kids will be interested. But then they get to college and have to take courses, do internships/co-ops/research and realize that the "cool" factor has been diminished. Its important to engage students, but also give them a realistic view so that they know what they are getting into.
Another important part of the pipeline is a good support system. At my undergraduate institution, there was a program set up to help minority students get into graduate school in STEM fields, and as part of the program we got free one-on-one tutoring with professional tutors. Having that type of support, and other support mechanisms ensured that when it came time for me to apply to graduate school, I was very prepared.
I look forward to more interesting discussion on this topic.
rthomas
· 1 year ago
As the only African American in my department's PhD program as well, and as far as I know the only black female in a doctoral engineering program at my school, I agree that there is a real problem. I think have support to successfully engage students is a must. If I wasn't pulled aside by administrators and professors in undergrad I would not be in graduate school right now. I do agree, however, that recruitment programs tend to try to make STEM fields seem cool and fun. While they may be "fun" and "cool" to some people, I think it is extremely important to expose the recruits to the realities of the day to day life. HBCUs are a great feeder for PHD programs, but from what I understand those students may struggle more in grad school at the majority institution socially (not necessarily academically) due to being introduced in such a different (albeit also mostly homogeneous) environment. I would love to hear what other things you have to say on this topic!
All good comments. I wasn't sold on science because of the cool factor, but I really do think it is cool. It's not always fun, like now - writing my dissertation and struggling w/ stats..So not sexy. But I do it anyway because it allows me to do the things I do like - Like sharing the results, going to conferences, science blogging. I didn't attend an HBCU, but my biggest critique with HBCU Biology programs is that they are medical science/microbiology leaning. Ecology programs are almost non-existent at these schools. But as far as I can tell, if they a tier 1 or 2 school, then they are pretty much on point in the other sciences and engineering programs. Also, thanks for the Engineering info. I am truly biased, so I need such resources to inform me.
Although many of you didn't go on to get graduate degrees or PhDs, you considered it. You were made aware at some point that 1) a PhD exists - I didn't know what a PhD was until college; 2) you seriously considered it and may have attended graduate school for some time. You participated.
But the lack of diversity can lead to desperation at times. With so few Blacks going to grad school for STEM everyone is tempted to hold on to you and keep you in no matter what. It's a temptation I fight when I meet bright students from the hood who forgo college to stay home and work. I end up trying to bribe their parents to let them go or keep their children while they go to class - for the greater good in the long run. But then I am reminded that people have responsibilities, choices and the right to pursue them.
I just hate to lose one.
Anita
· 1 year ago
I think in order for anyone to consider pursuing an advanceed degree, they have to be shown the value of it. I got my BS in chemical engineering and all I wanted to do is get the hell away from school and get a real job as fast as I could. One of the main reasons I chose engineering in the first place, over say, pure chemistry or biology (which I actually enjoyed more) is that I felt I would be more likely to get a decent, interesting job with just a bachelor's degree. The thought of staying in school 2 to 5... or 6? more years to get the MS or PhD it would take to become useful in another scientific field made me want to smash a beaker and cut my own throat with it (can you tell I really hated school?...) There was also nothing I cared about enough to subject myself to the apparently miserable lives I saw grad students living.
Flash forward 3 years, now that I have spent some time in the work force and have an idea of what I actually want to do with my career, I can see how an advanced degree would benefit me. There are things I am now actually interested enough in to want to learn more about them, that I could actually devote the time and effort to do research in those subjects. I can also identify specific employment opportunities I may want to pursue for which an advanced degree would be helpful, if not required.
I think students need to be shown earlier what options are available to begin with, and frankly what use an advanced degree would be to them both personally and globally. There is this notion that advanced degrees are for perpetual students who would just rather not "get a real job" when the whole point of going to college at all is so you can do just that. This is a shame because there is a lot of interesting (not necessarily fun, but absolutely interesting) and important work being done in the real world by PhDs in STEM fields. But since they aren't the most visible or obvious career choices (grade school kids know what lawyers or medical doctors are for, but how many know what a PhD physicist or molecular biologist would even do?) a lot fewer people even think of pursuing those kinds of careers to begin with.
BusbySeo
· 1 year ago
Grande première et après, les étudiants de couleur, et d'un intérêt particulier pour moi, Black étudiants doivent accepter l'idée que la science est une solution viable, réaliste, et pursuable carrière et d'études en ligne. De plus en plus de nous réaliser nous avons besoin pour atteindre les étudiants les plus jeunes. Haute école mai-être trop tard pour cultiver un intérêt pour la science - du moins, elle semble si. Deuxièmement, les stratégies de recrutement mai besoin de changement.
All Comments
I have an Electrical Engineering degree and interned at Procter and Gamble. I loved (absolutely loved) what I was doing my last summer and they required that I get a Masters degree to continue.
I balked at it, not lightly, for three reasons:
1.) I always had this desire to own my own business. This may be something ingrained in us from our culture and the implicit encouragement to 'be your own person' and 'excel more than others think is possible'. I felt that staying in school for another year would hamper this.
2.) I had an offer on the table from another company and simply was tired of school. Engineering was hard and I wanted a break.
3.) I wasn't sure if having a graduate degree would allow me to be flexible within the market for the future. I thought if I had this stack of degrees on my resumé and eventually decide to NOT be in engineering, I'd be pigeonholed.
I've spent a lot of time looking at the STEM pipeline, since I was in it for so many years. I think a large part of the issue is giving kids a realistic view of what STEM fields are. A lot of times in our outreach programs and various orgs we want to make STEM fields seem fun and cool so that kids will be interested. But then they get to college and have to take courses, do internships/co-ops/research and realize that the "cool" factor has been diminished. Its important to engage students, but also give them a realistic view so that they know what they are getting into.
Another important part of the pipeline is a good support system. At my undergraduate institution, there was a program set up to help minority students get into graduate school in STEM fields, and as part of the program we got free one-on-one tutoring with professional tutors. Having that type of support, and other support mechanisms ensured that when it came time for me to apply to graduate school, I was very prepared.
I look forward to more interesting discussion on this topic.
I wasn't sold on science because of the cool factor, but I really do think it is cool. It's not always fun, like now - writing my dissertation and struggling w/ stats..So not sexy. But I do it anyway because it allows me to do the things I do like - Like sharing the results, going to conferences, science blogging. I didn't attend an HBCU, but my biggest critique with HBCU Biology programs is that they are medical science/microbiology leaning. Ecology programs are almost non-existent at these schools. But as far as I can tell, if they a tier 1 or 2 school, then they are pretty much on point in the other sciences and engineering programs.
Also, thanks for the Engineering info. I am truly biased, so I need such resources to inform me.
Although many of you didn't go on to get graduate degrees or PhDs, you considered it. You were made aware at some point that 1) a PhD exists - I didn't know what a PhD was until college; 2) you seriously considered it and may have attended graduate school for some time. You participated.
But the lack of diversity can lead to desperation at times. With so few Blacks going to grad school for STEM everyone is tempted to hold on to you and keep you in no matter what. It's a temptation I fight when I meet bright students from the hood who forgo college to stay home and work. I end up trying to bribe their parents to let them go or keep their children while they go to class - for the greater good in the long run. But then I am reminded that people have responsibilities, choices and the right to pursue them.
I just hate to lose one.
Flash forward 3 years, now that I have spent some time in the work force and have an idea of what I actually want to do with my career, I can see how an advanced degree would benefit me. There are things I am now actually interested enough in to want to learn more about them, that I could actually devote the time and effort to do research in those subjects. I can also identify specific employment opportunities I may want to pursue for which an advanced degree would be helpful, if not required.
I think students need to be shown earlier what options are available to begin with, and frankly what use an advanced degree would be to them both personally and globally. There is this notion that advanced degrees are for perpetual students who would just rather not "get a real job" when the whole point of going to college at all is so you can do just that. This is a shame because there is a lot of interesting (not necessarily fun, but absolutely interesting) and important work being done in the real world by PhDs in STEM fields. But since they aren't the most visible or obvious career choices (grade school kids know what lawyers or medical doctors are for, but how many know what a PhD physicist or molecular biologist would even do?) a lot fewer people even think of pursuing those kinds of careers to begin with.