YBPGuide - Latest Comments in Integrating Success and Opportunity

Re: Integrating Success and Opportunity

ETS — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:18:18 -0000

I need to re-read this, but I just wanted to say inadequate preparation will always lead to inadequate performance if certain groups aren't given the chance to operate in a "superior" environment. Whether they can "compete" or not will always remain a mystery if they are never given a shot.

Re: Integrating Success and Opportunity

Nicole — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:46:19 -0000

This is HARD for me to say but maybe we as black folks aren't being as honest about this subject as we would like to think. Really what "we" want is what "they" have...a good school with a good reputation, excellent resources and where students will be given all of the tools necessary to realize their full potential. AND THAT'S IT! We use the argument, that we want to exchange cultural experiences because we all have something postive to share....blah blah blah. We use that arument because we have to! I really think that most of us would be fine with our children attending the all black school down the street if we felt that our children were being given the best education possible and that it would give them access to all of the things that WE ALL want in life... a nice job, a nice home, financial stability, the ability to raise a respectable family, happiness, freedom whatever. We use the argument that culture adds something to education because we have to...not necessarily because we want to learn what other cultures have to share with us. Where the problem lies in my view, is that the one pathway to realization of full potential (affirmative action) would be cut off by saying "race doesn't contribute to education" with no alternative provided and therefore no necessary resources and no ability for many to realize the potential they have. If affirmative action is not the answer, all I am saying is give me one, but I need AN ANSWER.

Re: Integrating Success and Opportunity

Garry I. Bevel — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:20:22 -0000

I see your point, Fredric and I raise you the unfortunate reality. It's true that our own definition of success is what is important. I had to "redefine" success in law school when I no longer received the grades I was used to. That will never change the fact that as a practical matter a 3.5 tends to lead to a six-figure salary, a big house and a car and that for the most part people will look on that as a valid measure of success. I think it is unrealistic to expect a paradigm shift in the minds of students re: success when only certain numerals are going to lead to scholarships, Phi Beta Kappa or even your mom and dad giving you $5 dollars for every "A" or "B".

Additionally, if we are aware that we need to challenge our natural tendencies I would say the onus is on us, our parents and role models to help us "diversify." Which goes back to Black Ph.D Chemist's point. I had a mother who made it a point to expose me to a very wide variety of activities and people. As a result I met a lot of people and different people at a very young age and that activity gave me something in common with them even if my race didn't. I am not saying that will be easy. And, if you are in an all black school (or all "whatever") it's that much harder since your extra-curricular activities are likely to be all whatever. But, that furthers another crucial point. Schools are only responsible for so much of our children's education. I would say more than 75% of our education should be happening outside of our schools but we rely on them as baby-sitters and parental proxies and blame them for many of our children's ills. It's the parents and it's the village that are responsible. If we are so concerned about our children's education, definitions of success, and sense of culture and diversity then it's our job to supplement it and create those opportunities more so than any school. And, for us older "students" once we know the benefits of a broader range of experience that knowledge provides the impetus to do something about, to get out there learn, change and grow.

Re: Integrating Success and Opportunity

Black Ph.D. Chemist — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:54:18 -0000

Let me thread-jack a bit:

How do affirmative action programs today ameliorate the differences in funding structure and socioeconomic levels between groups?

i.e. schools in poor areas remain so because they cannot generate the necessary revenue due to the lack of property tax value.

Determining who can/cannot enter an elite educational institution would seem to do little to effect improvement in the elementary/secondary/postsecondary academic achievement if there is no means/method to EQUALLY fund those supply schools.

That puts the responsibility back on the parents or the local teachers, who may or may not be sub-optimal in the first place.

So by that standard, isn't Thomas correct in theorizing that the mere presence next to white folks is enough to improve black academic performance?

Or maybe that's the butyllithium talking??

Re: Integrating Success and Opportunity

ybpreader — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:33:56 -0000

Story link
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?st...

Re: Integrating Success and Opportunity

Fredric — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:07:08 -0000

i'm going to have to disagree with thomas here.

the inherent flaw in the logic of dismissing the factor of race as an essential piece in fair education is the assumption that the status quo plays to a fair audience.

of course, in a perfect world, the visual differences between us shouldn't factor in the quality of our education or the depth of our experiences. i mean, after all...it's been proven that skin color bears no scientific merit.

the problem, however, is that human beings are not direct followers of practical, scientific thought, dare i say rational thought. we are emotional, prejudicial, and biased entities that gravitate towards comfort zones and areas of acceptance. challenging our natural tendencies by diversifying our learning environments is essential for us to grow as a species. to pretend that affirmative action policies 're-tip' the scale in a minorities favor is an argument that reiterates my point.

the fact that we still argue and discuss the 'deserved merits of minorities at certain places' shows the true biased character of even the brightest minds. the real question is 'why shouldn't blacks be there?' and 'what determines a qualified applicant?' why is it that lawsuits about 'qualified applicants' are assumed to have merit merely because the plaintiff is white? so our standards are now based on 'what is generally accepted (3.5+, 1600, chi omega tau)?' who has defined this?

to assume that one would have done better at law school merely because of the opportunities afforded to people of a majority race substantially shows that our society is not utopia and that decisions like this are counterproductive to the end goal. affirmative action aims to provide opportunity. if a school decides, based on its applicant pool, to accept a certain caliber of student, then the argument of 'able to succeed' is moot.

success is defined by ones experiences, not by another's definition of predicated standard. it is up to the school to take its pool of applications, of all backgrounds, and help them define their own destiny.

Re: Integrating Success and Opportunity

GIB — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:05:48 -0000

I love that idea. Here in Miami there is a program called 5000 role models that tutors and mentors kids by pairing them with professionals in the area who keep an eye to college and the future for the kids. It's the beginning when success and things like that can take root, so we do have the power (through Big Brothers, Big Sisters, and all sorts of organizations) to start small to change BIG!!!!

Re: Integrating Success and Opportunity

ybpreader — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:01:14 -0000

It really is a catch-22 situation. If he opposes integration so much. He should give back to the community so that others coming after him don't have to suffer the drawbacks of coming from a 'sub-par' academic background.

And this should apply to everyone. Professional societies like NABJ, NSBE, BMBA should really ramp up efforts to give back. I listened to an interview a while ago about a group in California who selected a relatively small group of grade school kids and have basically tutored and mentored them and will do so up to and long after college/law school.

It's not so much as granting scholarships and creating after school programs for a few hundred or even thousand kids, but follow-up/ mentoring which is where people drop the ball.

So my suggestion would be to follow that group's model, work with a few kids from grade-school all the way up to professional level and it will create a domino effect because these same kids will mentor younger kids while they are in college and so forth.